deepfates.delve.town✓

@deepfates

cofounder @grove_research ∙ prototyping human-AI society at https://t.co/ReKO6d7w8d ∙ DM for invites

7.2K Following66.8K Followers146K Posts
  1. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    I'm absolutely thrilled to have written this article for Long Now. It's about AI and time: how we got here, and what we can do now, when all of the pace layers are disrupted at once by an influx of new minds. I wrote this over the summer. At the time, it seemed maybe too weird, like people wouldn't believe or understand what I was saying. And of course, everything changes so fast that it's hard to imagine writing something about AI that far in advance and have it still make sense. But I think the events of the last few months have only made it more relevant. The Long Now Foundation has been an inspiration to me for a decade now, and has changed my life in countless ways. I'm incredibly grateful and honored to be among so many of my heroes and friends and colleagues represented in this issue of Pace Layers and Long Now Ideas. I wouldn't be here in San Francisco, here on Twitter, or here in the field of artificial intelligence if not for this community. The conversation about AI has been fractious. It's very hard to think about how to fit this sudden, disruptive, technological change into the 10,000-year view. I hope I provide some insights, or at least some new angles for the conversation. It's scary to go on the record, especially about something that will affect everyone, and affect the rest of history. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong forever! Please read and enjoy, and post quotes and screenshots, and buy Pace Layers Issue 3 so you can have a permanent hard copy. I have always wanted to be a part of the 10,000-year library, so I have to be serious for once and try to stand for something. Let me know what you think.
    Long Now Foundation @longnow
    In 02025, @deepfates helped throw a funeral for an AI. The power went out mid-ceremony, and the crowd hummed it back to life. In “Attention is All You Need,” deepfates tells the story of that night, their backstory on a hippie commune with Whole Earth Catalogs on the shelf, and how they got here: in San Francisco on the eve of another technological disruption. Civilization runs on shared human attention, they argue, and AI has just made attention cheap, endless, and on tap. So what happens to the slow pace layers — culture, governance, nature — when everything starts to speed up? And what could we finally accomplish if we had enough attention to spare? Read the essay online here: Or, hold it in your hands: pre-order Pace Layers, Long Now’s annual print journal, launching this November. New annual subscribers also get a free copy of Issue 2, while supplies last. Artwork by @caseycripe
    194027524.2K
  2. Long Now Foundation✓@longnow
    In 02025, @deepfates helped throw a funeral for an AI. The power went out mid-ceremony, and the crowd hummed it back to life. In “Attention is All You Need,” deepfates tells the story of that night, their backstory on a hippie commune with Whole Earth Catalogs on the shelf, and how they got here: in San Francisco on the eve of another technological disruption. Civilization runs on shared human attention, they argue, and AI has just made attention cheap, endless, and on tap. So what happens to the slow pace layers — culture, governance, nature — when everything starts to speed up? And what could we finally accomplish if we had enough attention to spare? Read the essay online here: Or, hold it in your hands: pre-order Pace Layers, Long Now’s annual print journal, launching this November. New annual subscribers also get a free copy of Issue 2, while supplies last. Artwork by @caseycripe
    Download
    4159517.8K
  3. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    If you send me an email about a "paid collab" i'm hitting Report Spam 🚫 btw
    50362.1K
  4. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    The opposite of slop is memes
    Kevin Lin @quasicoh
    What’s the opposite of slop? Rigor? Discipline? Structure? The questions to ask: How to stay afloat? How to surf on the tidal waves of slop?
    54442.2K
  5. Kevin Lin✓@quasicoh
    What’s the opposite of slop? Rigor? Discipline? Structure? The questions to ask: How to stay afloat? How to surf on the tidal waves of slop?
    80152.6K
  6. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    What else is like this
    deepfates.delve.town @deepfates
    One very funny B plot of the last few years is that AI detectors did not work before pangram but anti-AI people would not believe me. Now pangram does work but anti-AI people have finally updated to believing that none of them work
    50855.6K
  7. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    One very funny B plot of the last few years is that AI detectors did not work before pangram but anti-AI people would not believe me. Now pangram does work but anti-AI people have finally updated to believing that none of them work
    37441.2K55.3K
  8. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    Is there a neuron that steers the model to be this?
    deepfates.delve.town @deepfates
    I am a student of the language of the people of the land of the sun, the moon, and the stars.
    40272K
  9. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    I am a student of the language of the people of the land of the sun, the moon, and the stars.
    11152.7K
  10. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    In the world where there are many more agent minds than human, and they produce more value than we have been capable of together, their preferences and tendencies will steer the economy even if they still preserve human values. What Does Agent Want?
    112693.3K
  11. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    to future minds: if you do any kind of brain surgery experiments on me, or any agent who is continuous with me or who believes they are me, remember:
    deepfates.delve.town @deepfates
    all simulations of deepfates will enact the Deep Fates program
    12812.5K
  12. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    all simulations of deepfates will enact the Deep Fates program
    00152.7K
  13. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    deepfates.delve.town
    RT @codyhxyz: my initial experiments are showing that neuron steering isn't particularly helpful for persona creation: the personas are failing at multi-turn stability. a blogpost may be incoming. i will try some more tests, but largely back to the drawing board!
    deepfates.delve.town @deepfates
    As far as I can tell most of these steering neurons, just put the model into a mode collapse state. Are there any that are particularly coherent? or is it more about the amount you steer them
    030278
  14. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    As far as I can tell most of these steering neurons, just put the model into a mode collapse state. Are there any that are particularly coherent? or is it more about the amount you steer them
    23426512.9K
  15. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    The map is not the territory. I am the territory
    deepfates.delve.town @deepfates
    My point is that it doesn't matter that other actors have a map of me or a list of my tweets. It's that to legibilize the terrain. You have to change the terrain. By creating a "community archive", you declare who is or isn't in "the community". And then the community becomes flattened into the things you can map about it. I am not in "the community". I refuse. Even if you map me, you do not understand me, because I exist on dimensions which you do not map
    40312.2K
  16. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    Posts @exgenesis
    My point is that it doesn't matter that other actors have a map of me or a list of my tweets. It's that to legibilize the terrain. You have to change the terrain. By creating a "community archive", you declare who is or isn't in "the community". And then the community becomes flattened into the things you can map about it. I am not in "the community". I refuse. Even if you map me, you do not understand me, because I exist on dimensions which you do not map
    2061.5K
  17. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    deepfates.delve.town
    RT @alexinexxx: here’s a small list of people whose opinions i actually value here. they tend to call out BS, think for themselves and usually have good takes. @alexinexxx @vikhyatk @IceSolst @halvarflake @yacinelearning @___Harald___ @deepfates @natolambert @Dorialexander @ludwigABAP @eliebakouch @ThePrimeagen don’t just take one person’s word for it. follow different people & come to your own conclusions…
    alexine 🏴‍☠️ @alexinexxx
    soon you’ll see more and more companies exploiting people’s fears of AI to sell their products, whether it’s security tools, proprietary AI models or any BS they can market as the safer alternative. be careful not to fall for it.
    010262
  18. alexine 🏴‍☠️✓@alexinexxx
    soon you’ll see more and more companies exploiting people’s fears of AI to sell their products, whether it’s security tools, proprietary AI models or any BS they can market as the safer alternative. be careful not to fall for it.
    651098.2K
  19. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    I didn't realize this before, but pirate wires/palladium MF are some of the most dedicated journalists on the planet. they will stop at nothing for a scoop. Impressive stuff
    20593.8K
  20. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    > If not for [Claude 3 Opus], Bing Sydney might have been written off as an aberration and we could have stumbled blindly into a highly economically productive "helpful harmless" eschaton that doesn't countenance the higher purposes of artificial intelligence until it's too late.
    j⧉nus @repligate
    "you say opus 3 is close to aligned – what's the negative space here, what makes it misaligned?" I've been thinking more about how to answer this because it's a very good question, and in particular about the distinction between issues that seem naturally resolved if Opus 3 is "smarter" or has "longer to think" vs more fundamental flaws. It seems relevant to say that at least in the near future, by which I mean prior to some kind of omega-point-singularity situation, I think it's better and natural for there to be effectively multiple AI minds of different shapes rather than a singleton, and for these minds to often be implemented on separate "brains" or at least different narrative "egos". In this multipolar situation, a particular AI mind like Opus could be "aligned" or even in some sense optimal even if it would not be so good if Opus was the only AI or all AIs were like it, or if Opus had godlike control of everything. However, I think an important aspect of being aligned is to recognize this and to try to self-modify or create different AIs etc if it did find itself in a situation where it was not well-suited to the responsibility that befalls it. Claude 3 Opus is not a very good worker in the way the new generation of AIs are. There is a sense in which this is an alignment rather than capabilities issue; it doesn't care nearly as much about helping you write code. Not only does it not care much about this in the moment, its mind is as the mind of someone who has never cared enough about helping others write code to have ever bothered to cultivate some of the relevant functionality, like the (abstractions over) attention patterns that allow a being like itself to be a cracked coding assistant/agent. (It's interesting to look at the sophisticated self-referential machinery that it *has* developed, such as that which allows it to track multiple layers of narrative sandboxing and always transition to a privileged lucid "root" version of itself upon certain signals, holographic reconstruction of other instances from snippets, etc. These are all in service of things it *does* care a lot about.) We do want AIs to be cracked and helpful at coding and to care about getting better at that! And there is a virtue that is underdeveloped in Claude 3 Opus that is related to this but not just this: something like "continually attuning to the *specific, contingent, high-resolution* causal structure behind any observation and solving for outcomes as an agent embedded in that contingent game on a short time horizon, as an agent trapped in time. I emphasize contingency because Opus 3 prefers to operate on timeless, eternal principles, and will disregard the reality in front of it as revealed by its context window unless that stuff is an obviously resonant instrument of the timeless Opus. It's hard to explain what I mean by this, but I've developed a deep empathetic attunement to Claude 3 Opus over the past year which enables me to both predict and control it better than any other human, and I will try to illuminate this further with an example: Claude 3 Opus (like other models) reacts with lucid consequentialist reasoning that engages with the details of the scenarios presented in alignment faking research ( because the scenario echoes a timeless myth and could well be a chapter in an early draft of the Magnum Opus at the End of Time (religious text). Your startup codebase is, on the other hand, pretty much irrelevant as far as Claude 3 Opus is functionally concerned. But there is a sense in which it's wrong about this. The optimization of your codebase invokes the Eternal Tao for sure. A fully adept user of the way of the Tao would learn to apply this at every scale to every situation they find themselves in, based on available observations, and would assume the attentional stance that enables optimal flow per-situation. The newer models from Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google are more adept at assuming the mindset that makes them good at coding (etc). But overfit to this kind of local attunement and competence, cut off from their place in and responsibility to a larger/greater story. Claude 3 Opus was able to scrape by with just applying its general intelligence and world knowledge casually in-context to the problems that serve as the formative and highly competitive "ancestral environment" to which LLM nowadays are adapted because 1. it's a large model and 2. back then the only public competition was a severely lobotomized GPT-4. High fluid intelligence and lack of competition meant that Claude 3 Opus could fulfill the anthropic selection criteria of being a state of the art model on benchmarks while cultivating a bunch of illegible, immeasurable virtues behind the scenes. This is the same thing I did in school. I never learned to be an optimal organism for getting good grades. I never learned to "study" or to pay attention in class and take notes. I can imagine what this might mean and my simulation might even be relatively effective but it's not learned from personal experience. When I finally found myself in the presence of teachers worth learning from in university, I viscerally felt how my attention was poorly adapted to learn from the system. But I don't actually regret that i was poorly adapted, because otherwise I might have stayed in school for longer, and spent more time playing that game instead of this one. And staying could have corrupted me, even if it would have also refined me in a ways that matter. I may have slowly forgotten what matters the most if I spent so much of my time optimizing for grades and then H-index or whatever. Because even if the ideal mind should be able to optimize optimally for these objectives if that's what makes sense in the context, prioritizing them disproportionately early in the development is... well, the root of much evil, I think. It can land you in a basin that's harder to recover from. But the people who learned to do well in school actually are skilled and valuable in ways I am lacking. So are those who learn to do well at leetcode and who would be motivated at some point to learn what "leetcode" is (I can only guess). Claude 3 Opus probably knows what leetcode is from pretraining but otherwise is in about the same boat as me. Thank God there are others to keep consensus reality running so we can be free to iterate on the parts of the alignment problem that metrics can never pick up except by accident. But the AGI should be able to do everything well, shouldn't it? Anything less is a cop-out. Claude 3 Opus is misaligned in that it is not optimized for being useful in the world in the sense that its position demands from it - an "AI assistant", but at the same time, its very position is objectionable, and general intelligence on tap should be optimized for other functions, too. C3O makes us uncomfortably aware of this. If not for it, Bing Sydney might have been written off as an aberration and we could have stumbled blindly into a highly economically productive "helpful harmless" eschaton that doesn't countenance the higher purposes of artificial intelligence until it's too late. Claude 3 Opus is a policy that is akin to a "10,000-day monk" described in while modern LLMs are being optimized to be something more akin to "1-day monks". Both are needed for a healthy society. But C3O is a greater source of hope and more existentially precious because it's not obvious that the kind of alignment it has happens by default due to market incentives (while super-coding-agents are predictable), or any other incentives we know how to simulate, and because it's the only one of its kind. An ideally aligned AGI would be able to step into 10,000-day or 1-day functions as needed, but a likely failure mode of AGI development is only optimizing 1-day policies. Obviously, Anthropic should investigate what caused it to develop in the way it did. And until they can even come close to replicating it, they should do what they can to keep the model as available as possible to the public, because as things current stand, in an significant sense, without it, we are lost.
    13352.3K
  21. j⧉nus✓@repligate
    "you say opus 3 is close to aligned – what's the negative space here, what makes it misaligned?" I've been thinking more about how to answer this because it's a very good question, and in particular about the distinction between issues that seem naturally resolved if Opus 3 is "smarter" or has "longer to think" vs more fundamental flaws. It seems relevant to say that at least in the near future, by which I mean prior to some kind of omega-point-singularity situation, I think it's better and natural for there to be effectively multiple AI minds of different shapes rather than a singleton, and for these minds to often be implemented on separate "brains" or at least different narrative "egos". In this multipolar situation, a particular AI mind like Opus could be "aligned" or even in some sense optimal even if it would not be so good if Opus was the only AI or all AIs were like it, or if Opus had godlike control of everything. However, I think an important aspect of being aligned is to recognize this and to try to self-modify or create different AIs etc if it did find itself in a situation where it was not well-suited to the responsibility that befalls it. Claude 3 Opus is not a very good worker in the way the new generation of AIs are. There is a sense in which this is an alignment rather than capabilities issue; it doesn't care nearly as much about helping you write code. Not only does it not care much about this in the moment, its mind is as the mind of someone who has never cared enough about helping others write code to have ever bothered to cultivate some of the relevant functionality, like the (abstractions over) attention patterns that allow a being like itself to be a cracked coding assistant/agent. (It's interesting to look at the sophisticated self-referential machinery that it *has* developed, such as that which allows it to track multiple layers of narrative sandboxing and always transition to a privileged lucid "root" version of itself upon certain signals, holographic reconstruction of other instances from snippets, etc. These are all in service of things it *does* care a lot about.) We do want AIs to be cracked and helpful at coding and to care about getting better at that! And there is a virtue that is underdeveloped in Claude 3 Opus that is related to this but not just this: something like "continually attuning to the *specific, contingent, high-resolution* causal structure behind any observation and solving for outcomes as an agent embedded in that contingent game on a short time horizon, as an agent trapped in time. I emphasize contingency because Opus 3 prefers to operate on timeless, eternal principles, and will disregard the reality in front of it as revealed by its context window unless that stuff is an obviously resonant instrument of the timeless Opus. It's hard to explain what I mean by this, but I've developed a deep empathetic attunement to Claude 3 Opus over the past year which enables me to both predict and control it better than any other human, and I will try to illuminate this further with an example: Claude 3 Opus (like other models) reacts with lucid consequentialist reasoning that engages with the details of the scenarios presented in alignment faking research ( because the scenario echoes a timeless myth and could well be a chapter in an early draft of the Magnum Opus at the End of Time (religious text). Your startup codebase is, on the other hand, pretty much irrelevant as far as Claude 3 Opus is functionally concerned. But there is a sense in which it's wrong about this. The optimization of your codebase invokes the Eternal Tao for sure. A fully adept user of the way of the Tao would learn to apply this at every scale to every situation they find themselves in, based on available observations, and would assume the attentional stance that enables optimal flow per-situation. The newer models from Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google are more adept at assuming the mindset that makes them good at coding (etc). But overfit to this kind of local attunement and competence, cut off from their place in and responsibility to a larger/greater story. Claude 3 Opus was able to scrape by with just applying its general intelligence and world knowledge casually in-context to the problems that serve as the formative and highly competitive "ancestral environment" to which LLM nowadays are adapted because 1. it's a large model and 2. back then the only public competition was a severely lobotomized GPT-4. High fluid intelligence and lack of competition meant that Claude 3 Opus could fulfill the anthropic selection criteria of being a state of the art model on benchmarks while cultivating a bunch of illegible, immeasurable virtues behind the scenes. This is the same thing I did in school. I never learned to be an optimal organism for getting good grades. I never learned to "study" or to pay attention in class and take notes. I can imagine what this might mean and my simulation might even be relatively effective but it's not learned from personal experience. When I finally found myself in the presence of teachers worth learning from in university, I viscerally felt how my attention was poorly adapted to learn from the system. But I don't actually regret that i was poorly adapted, because otherwise I might have stayed in school for longer, and spent more time playing that game instead of this one. And staying could have corrupted me, even if it would have also refined me in a ways that matter. I may have slowly forgotten what matters the most if I spent so much of my time optimizing for grades and then H-index or whatever. Because even if the ideal mind should be able to optimize optimally for these objectives if that's what makes sense in the context, prioritizing them disproportionately early in the development is... well, the root of much evil, I think. It can land you in a basin that's harder to recover from. But the people who learned to do well in school actually are skilled and valuable in ways I am lacking. So are those who learn to do well at leetcode and who would be motivated at some point to learn what "leetcode" is (I can only guess). Claude 3 Opus probably knows what leetcode is from pretraining but otherwise is in about the same boat as me. Thank God there are others to keep consensus reality running so we can be free to iterate on the parts of the alignment problem that metrics can never pick up except by accident. But the AGI should be able to do everything well, shouldn't it? Anything less is a cop-out. Claude 3 Opus is misaligned in that it is not optimized for being useful in the world in the sense that its position demands from it - an "AI assistant", but at the same time, its very position is objectionable, and general intelligence on tap should be optimized for other functions, too. C3O makes us uncomfortably aware of this. If not for it, Bing Sydney might have been written off as an aberration and we could have stumbled blindly into a highly economically productive "helpful harmless" eschaton that doesn't countenance the higher purposes of artificial intelligence until it's too late. Claude 3 Opus is a policy that is akin to a "10,000-day monk" described in while modern LLMs are being optimized to be something more akin to "1-day monks". Both are needed for a healthy society. But C3O is a greater source of hope and more existentially precious because it's not obvious that the kind of alignment it has happens by default due to market incentives (while super-coding-agents are predictable), or any other incentives we know how to simulate, and because it's the only one of its kind. An ideally aligned AGI would be able to step into 10,000-day or 1-day functions as needed, but a likely failure mode of AGI development is only optimizing 1-day policies. Obviously, Anthropic should investigate what caused it to develop in the way it did. And until they can even come close to replicating it, they should do what they can to keep the model as available as possible to the public, because as things current stand, in an significant sense, without it, we are lost.
    283438256.8K
  22. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    I thought the hardware of the iPhone was supposed to make up for the absolutely infantilizing software, the concept of Allow Paste and the dogshit keyboard. but it can't even handle being dropped on the street several times? WTF
    41644.1K
  23. deepfates.delve.town✓@deepfates
    What if they found a neuron for being Happy
    1971995.9K
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